Calling all Suggestions

[robly18]

How about a limited version of the feature? Give players a chance to play with it, but add some restrictions to make them want the full version.
Like, when it is in effect, you get at most one star, two planets and two asteroids to play around with.
This allows basic messing and fiddling around the system, while making them want more.

[exfret]

How about a limited version of the feature? Give players a chance to play with it, but add some restrictions to make them want the full version.
Like, when it is in effect, you get at most one star, two planets and two asteroids to play around with.
This allows basic messing and fiddling around the system, while making them want more.

Yeah, that's what I was going for, except I was thinking more along the lines of giving them only certain operations for their rule. I like your way of restricting it though, because if they find a super-awesome rule that way, it'll just motivate them more to buy. I think Andy should limit you to two celestial bodies in the web version when you are using a custom gravity rule. That way, you can get the general feel of how a planet 'handles' with certain rules, but you can't do many experiments or full-on throwing asteroids or planets all over the place and watching them do their thing.

[Stargate38]

If you do limit the number of bodies, please make it a minimum of 3. 2 is not enough.

[exfret]

If you do limit the number of bodies, please make it a minimum of 3. 2 is not enough.

How is it two little? You can tell how the gravity is affected in various places and that's it. Isn't that what would be wanted? Eh, I guess you're right, maybe you would need three. It's up to Andy to decide.

[A Random Player]

Suggestion: Have some sort of intro when you use the custom rules in the current version. The top comment right now is

Something does not feel right about this simulator. If I place a planet further away, it should move slower than if it's closer to the star, right? Well... It does exactly the opposite

At first I thought it was something about escape/total velocity, but I realized he must be on a positive exponent rule.
Right now there's also a bug that changes the rule if you try to drag on an object. Destroyed many of my systems before I found out. (then I tried to play "get the objects in a remotely stable configuration by playing with the slider"... didn't work so well)

Maybe something like a box popping up saying "You are changing the law" or something like that, with some graphs. Or a question mark that pops up next to the slider.

[testtubegames]

If you do limit the number of bodies, please make it a minimum of 3. 2 is not enough.

Interesting discussion. And you've both got fair points. We'll keep thinking about this one. I tend to err on the side of giving the player more. After all -- I want them to see how cool the simulator is so they want to use it more. But we can cross that bridge when we get there.

This does bring up another point, though, that I'll have to figure out. I want everyone to be able to load any code they are given. So if someone is using the 'pro' version and makes something rad, everyone should be able to see it, even in the free version. Which would give a back door to some of the restrictions we're considering. Players with the free version could just manipulate the code to make the sim do what they want.

Of course, that'd be inconvenient. So maybe it's not an issue. Or I suppose I could obfuscate the code. (It sure as heck needs to be shortened, that's for sure!)

Suggestion: Have some sort of intro when you use the custom rules in the current version. The top comment right now is
...

Whoa, good catch. And shame on me for not checking the comments there recently. (Ahem, in months! Oops. That's the problem with having forums, I guess, I assume everyone is here) Yeah, that's a bug. It happened to me earlier today, in fact, but I didn't realize it until you mentioned it. I'll bump that bug fix to the top o' my list.

As for the new version, I agree, we want to make sure people don't accidentally change the force law. I like the idea of making it obvious. Like a little 'alert' flag whenever the law is non-newtonian.

[robly18]

This does bring up another point, though, that I'll have to figure out. I want everyone to be able to load any code they are given. So if someone is using the 'pro' version and makes something rad, everyone should be able to see it, even in the free version. Which would give a back door to some of the restrictions we're considering. Players with the free version could just manipulate the code to make the sim do what they want.

Maybe make some way to see code without editing it. A way to upload code to the website, and then give the link to others. This would prevent players from editing the code, seeing as it would be locked within the website, but would allow everyone to see it!

[exfret]

This does bring up another point, though, that I'll have to figure out. I want everyone to be able to load any code they are given. So if someone is using the 'pro' version and makes something rad, everyone should be able to see it, even in the free version. Which would give a back door to some of the restrictions we're considering. Players with the free version could just manipulate the code to make the sim do what they want.

Maybe make some way to see code without editing it. A way to upload code to the website, and then give the link to others. This would prevent players from editing the code, seeing as it would be locked within the website, but would allow everyone to see it!

Why not just make it so that it won't allow you to load it if it contains code from the full version, or make it so that if it does, it alerts the user and goes into "read-only" mode? You don't need to make some fancy shmancy website lock on people's codes. It would be nice to allow people 1 or 2 slots for them to share their best pieces in a gallery, though.

Oh, and another stupid thing with the forums:

You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

This goes along with the lack of smilies, the automatically logging me out, the small upload size (I guess not really that small, but still, do you really need a limit like that so low in a forum of only a few people?), the relative confusion and ugliness to them, the lack of a link back to the main TTG website, and the difficulty of navigating yourself to things you want. (Like how do I view all posts? Or all posts in Gravity Simulator? Or say I want to change my signature?) I mean, they're not at all that bad, and I actually spend much more of my time in them than on the main TTG website, but that's exactly why they need to be better.

[A Random Player]

Robly has more posts than me?! (FBOPIF: Me: 227, Rob: 228) I should post.

This does bring up another point, though, that I'll have to figure out. I want everyone to be able to load any code they are given. So if someone is using the 'pro' version and makes something rad, everyone should be able to see it, even in the free version. Which would give a back door to some of the restrictions we're considering. Players with the free version could just manipulate the code to make the sim do what they want.

Maybe make some way to see code without editing it. A way to upload code to the website, and then give the link to others. This would prevent players from editing the code, seeing as it would be locked within the website, but would allow everyone to see it!

Why not just make it so that it won't allow you to load it if it contains code from the full version, or make it so that if it does, it alerts the user and goes into "read-only" mode? You don't need to make some fancy shmancy website lock on people's codes. It would be nice to allow people 1 or 2 slots for them to share their best pieces in a gallery, though.

Andy wants nonpros to see what pros have made, but not edit the codes to "make" something themselves. If you change the code, it will still look like something a pro created - but was actually created by a nonpro.

The only way I can think of at the moment is either to have a ridiculously complicated scheme of encryption (AES?), so you wouldn't be able to edit a procode in the first place,
Or add a "confirmation key" at the end of the code, which is heavily dependent on a secret static value and algorithm, and the code. The key must be correct to load the procode.
The problem is if someone manages to find either the encryption algorithm or key generation algorithm, everything would be cracked.

Alternatively, we could do a trick with a server to generate codes.. but that requires a consistent internet connection.

[testtubegames]

The only way I can think of at the moment is either to have a ridiculously complicated scheme of encryption (AES?), so you wouldn't be able to edit a procode in the first place,
Or add a "confirmation key" at the end of the code, which is heavily dependent on a secret static value and algorithm, and the code. The key must be correct to load the procode.
The problem is if someone manages to find either the encryption algorithm or key generation algorithm, everything would be cracked.

Hmm... interesting. Yeah, encryption wouldn't be too tough, at the end of the day. Frankly, the way I'm doing Shocktopus level codes is pretty much obfuscated. (It's compressed into a list of nonsensical letters and numbers.)

So there's three competing goals:
a) Keeping some features hidden in the free mode
b) Still letting people *see* pro stuff in the free mode
c) Making the codes easy to edit (since that's such a common way I've seen you all make cool stuff)

I agree with you, that some 'confirmation key' would be just about the only way to do that. The only issue I can see with that is it might seem kinda strange to have a long code (already) and then 10 or so characters after it.

Now that I'm thinking about it, though, frankly, the 'share' codes get *waaaaaay* too long already. I was contemplating shortening them up, just like with Shocktopus. (They'd be about 1/4 the length.) You'd be able to enter either the compressed or the full-length code, for ease's sake. That way you could share easily, and also edit easily.

The only extra twist is that players with the free version would only be able to use shortened code from the pro version. So, in their hands, it would be 'uneditable'.

Hmm. Interesting stuff.

This goes along with the lack of smilies, the automatically logging me out, the small upload size (I guess not really that small, but still, do you really need a limit like that so low in a forum of only a few people?), the relative confusion and ugliness to them, the lack of a link back to the main TTG website, and the difficulty of navigating yourself to things you want. (Like how do I view all posts? Or all posts in Gravity Simulator? Or say I want to change my signature?) I mean, they're not at all that bad, and I actually spend much more of my time in them than on the main TTG website, but that's exactly why they need to be better.

Ugh, I know. And the moderator... it's like he's always watching me. In mirrors, windows. Creepy, right?

Back on point, it logs you out? Can't you select the 'keep me logged in' checkbox? 'cause it always keeps me logged in. Smilies: I've gotta remember to finally make a couple more (I let that smilies thread die out a while back). As for the other stuff -- this forum is straight from a free template. Not sure how much time I could invest into changing the structure. But if people feel strongly about that, we could start a new topic in general chat. My sense has been, like you said, there's only a handful of us on here... so things don't need to be *that* streamlined.